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hi everyone this is martin willis with

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podcast ufo looks like we made it

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through the mayan

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disaster the end of the world is not

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here

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i've heard some say that it must have

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been a typo on the calendar

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anyway i'm glad we're all here and

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welcome to episode number 31

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with john lear it's only about a

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20-minute segment today i hope you enjoy

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it

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like us on facebook

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and those icons are right on our website

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thank you for listening and i hope you

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enjoy the show

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i'm on skype with john lear how you

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doing john

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real good martin how are you doing great

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and you're in where are you in las vegas

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las vegas nevada yeah you know your

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father was

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the uh founder of the learjet company

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beautiful

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jets a symbol of uh status and

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uh i just wondered what what gets you

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interested in going down the path of

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ufology to begin with well i the first

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thing i remember

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is in 1947 we had a house in palm

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springs

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and it was pretty desolate and uh

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somehow that book from i think rupelt or

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somebody wrote a book

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uh about ufos and uh

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i remember reading it and being

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intensely interested in it

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uh the next thing that i remember is

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when i was in the cub scouts

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we were at this over at this guy's house

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and i was

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laying on a hill watching the sky and i

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saw something go across the sky in three

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seconds

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it was just a light and left a thin

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trail that

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instantly disappeared and uh

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so i looked around and said did you guys

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see that and

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everybody kind of looked blankly at me

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and and

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uh nobody had seen it then the next

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thing i remembered was uh

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many years later i was descending in the

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learjet into

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los angeles international and i was over

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banning

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pass in a decent 33 000

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i saw an object go from left to right

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from in back of me to in front of me and

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it looked exactly like

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the m2f2 which is uh

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referred to as the flying bathtub or

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that plane that the

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the six million dollar man uh crashed in

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if you remember back that far

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oh i do remember that yeah and

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uh when i saw it uh i thought it was the

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m2f deal i

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even went to the trouble to call the

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chief pilot at learjet

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when i got on the ground and say hey

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you'll never guess what i saw

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only years later that i realized how

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ridiculous it was

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to think i saw an airplane like that

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over the approach corridor of los

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angeles international

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there's no way they would be do testing

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there they would be

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you have flown all kinds of jets you've

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won

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all kinds of awards i believe as a pilot

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i held at one time 17 world records for

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speed

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uh in the lear jet and also i hold

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a number of certificates which the faa

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uh issues you for various disciplines

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like

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being a navigator being an aircraft

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mechanic

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being a controlled tower operator that

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kind of stuff i see

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at one time did you actually fly for the

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cia

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yeah i flew for continental air services

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on southeast asia they were under

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contract

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with the cia to do the same stuff as air

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america was doing

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and i did that for about a year

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and then i flew various missions that

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were

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cia sanctioned in the

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middle east in africa

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now lima site 20a uh

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richard doty had claimed that he was

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there one time did you ever meet him

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there

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no uh was he what rank was he

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uh i'm not really sure at that time

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uh but he claimed uh that he was there

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at the lima site

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20a i just wondered if that was a place

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that you flew into

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yeah that's where we got our daily

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briefing we uh

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we're overnight and state invention

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and then every morning we get in the

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airplane and

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we'd fly about 30 to 45 minutes north

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into this uh 20 alternate

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and uh we get our briefing the name of

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the actual name of the

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of the building was sky s-k-y

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so you referred to it as i'm going to

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and had had you ever met richard doty at

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a later time

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he was involved in the benowitz case

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yeah no i never met him i heard a lot

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about him

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this is the first time i ever heard that

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he had

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been in uh been at 20 alternate yeah

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that was a claim

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i believe that he had made on on some

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blog site or form from what i understand

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it'll be interesting to know in what

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capacity he was there

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uh one of the things that i saw uh a

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documentary

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quite a while ago was uh one with you

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talking about

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bob lazar and um i know that

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you had i believed he he was involved in

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a real estate appraisal at your house or

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something when you first met him

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is that right yeah bob lazar had a

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friend called

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uh gene huff and gene called me one day

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and he wanted a copy of all my ufo tapes

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i had some uh

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the billy meyer tapes

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and some other tapes and

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he's he offered me he said i'm an

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appraiser

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and if you'll give me a copy of all your

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tapes

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i'll do an appraisal for your house so i

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said okay

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we'll do that so when he came over to

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pick up the tapes and start the

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appraisal

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he brought with him a guy to hold the

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end of the measuring tape and that guy

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was bob lazar

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and bob lazar at that time didn't

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believe in ufos in any way shape or form

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he told both gene and me that he had

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worked at los alamos he had the highest

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clearance she could get

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but he had never seen anything of that

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nature or

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read anything of that nature and then

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yet later on

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uh he claimed that he actually started

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working

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at groom lake and

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there was a situation i heard

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in one of the shows where you mentioned

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that on a wednesday evening

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you went out and write when he said

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there would be

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testing you actually saw a dome shaped

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disc or something

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that was march 21st

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1989 i was over at his house and he said

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he was already working up at s4 and he

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said they're going to test fly tomorrow

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do you want to go up and watch

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and i said yeah but how can we watch

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without violating security he said well

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there's a dirt road to the northeast of

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of groom lake and uh it's

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we can get um pretty close without

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violating security

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and they test at uh nine o'clock

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so if we get there about quarter to nine

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will be okay

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so i said down i'd like to do that so

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that was the uh

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march 22nd 1989

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me and jean huff and

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bob and bob's wife drove up there

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no bob's wife didn't come that trip and

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we parked on the road about

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12 miles northeast of green lake

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and started setting up the telescope and

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we saw in the distance this

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uh bright light you couldn't see any

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definition of uh

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shape because it was too far away so i

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started setting up the telescope

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and just as it stopped motion and

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started going down

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or going vertically down behind the

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mountains

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i got the telescope lined up

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and saw in fact it was a disc and it was

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radiating

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yellowish kind of substance and

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i watched it for a few seconds and then

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i pulled away

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to let gene huff luck

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and as i pulled stepped away i hooked my

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foot around one of the tripods

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and moved the scope and he didn't get to

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see it speaking of

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bob lazar there is a lot of ufologists

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who have done a lot of research and and

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there's a lot

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of speculation that bob lazar was a

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fraud

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as far as the whole story goes and i

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know you were good friends with him

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uh i just wondered what you have you

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come to any different conclusion

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over the years yeah i uh my personal

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opinion he's not a friday

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he uh when i first met him he didn't

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believe in ufos it took us

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three or four months to get him

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interested enough that he would uh apply

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for a job at groom lake

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forget his name now but anyway i was

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there when he made the call

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and he got three interviews

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over the next uh two months

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and the next thing i knew he was sitting

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at my desk on a

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december i think it was sixth 1988 and

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he says i saw a disc today and i said

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what and he said i saw a dish today and

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i said

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there's her eyes he said theirs and i

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said what are you doing here i said why

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don't you

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find out what's going on because they've

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obviously followed you why don't you

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find out what's going on and then tell

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me

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he said no he said you know the truth is

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i've seen you take so much crap

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over the past few months uh and

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uh i've seen it i've touched it

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i know it's true and so i'm coming

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forward to tell you that yes it

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it's true that you everything you said

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is true

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so um that was the

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december 6th and uh that was when he uh

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the first day he went to green

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went to work on um went to work up at

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groom lake

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a lot of people are you know have looked

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into his

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educational background and and it just

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doesn't come up to snuff uh with the

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positions that he claimed to have had

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so i i know there's still a lot of

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controversy about that are you still in

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touch with bob these days

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yeah bob lives in i think it's

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bainbridge michigan

285
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and i think he's the third or fourth

286
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largest distributor of scientific

287
00:12:00,629 --> 00:11:57,279
supplies to schools and universities

288
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and because of the economy he's

289
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:03,600
downsizing now he's moving into a

290
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,839
a smaller warehouse

291
00:12:11,110 --> 00:12:09,360
he was going to come to my birthday

292
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party last

293
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:13,680
saturday or sunday but because of this

294
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:15,440
move he just couldn't make it

295
00:12:21,350 --> 00:12:18,880
as far as paul benowitz now you

296
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:21,360
you actually knew him or you you

297
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:23,279
actually spent a few days at his house

298
00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:24,000
is that is

299
00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:26,880
that correct yeah a guy named chris

300
00:12:32,629 --> 00:12:28,639
lambright introduced me to

301
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:32,639
paul and we became good friends i stayed

302
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,320
at his house uh

303
00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:37,200
two nights and uh listened to his

304
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:38,399
stories

305
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:41,600
and he was a really interesting guy

306
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:44,399
the unhappy thing about it was three

307
00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:47,200
weeks before he passed away

308
00:12:51,910 --> 00:12:50,000
which was about i think 10 years ago he

309
00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:51,920
called me here in las vegas and said

310
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:52,720
john

311
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,760
i'd like to see it and i just i couldn't

312
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:57,040
get the time

313
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i was flying cargo at the time and

314
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:02,240
couldn't get the money to

315
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:05,120
take an airline there and i wasn't able

316
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:06,160
to go

317
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but i've always regretted that because i

318
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:10,160
always wondered what he was going to

319
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:11,040
tell me

320
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:13,839
wow there there was some speculation

321
00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:14,720
that

322
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:21,600
at something and do do you have any idea

323
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:23,920
what that might have been about

324
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angry at me not necessarily you

325
00:13:30,389 --> 00:13:29,279
but uh other people that he was in touch

326
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:30,399
with um he

327
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he kind of isolated from that point on

328
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changed his phone number things like

329
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:34,800
that

330
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angry because

331
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he told me everything that he knew and

332
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:41,760
he thought that i was going to take it

333
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:42,720
direct to con

334
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:46,079
congress and get some

335
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:48,480
get some resolution on this matter

336
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because he felt we were

337
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:52,399
very close to be taken over by the

338
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graves

339
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and uh he wanted help but as it turns

340
00:14:02,310 --> 00:13:58,160
out

341
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:02,320
nothing much happened and uh he was

342
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:05,519
he uh paul benowitz was ticked off that

343
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:09,040
uh that i hadn't done anything about it

344
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:12,800
i see well that that's interesting

345
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:16,000
now there is also speculation the

346
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:19,279
underground basis in dulce

347
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:22,240
new mexico was kind of something that

348
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:24,079
was thrown at bennowitz to kind of get

349
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:24,720
his

350
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:26,480
thoughts off of what was happening

351
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:28,240
really close to home do you have any

352
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:29,600
insight on that

353
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:32,639
well they definitely uh you know

354
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:36,480
um paul benowitz was the first one to

355
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:38,800
come up with dulce not them

356
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:41,920
and he did so by

357
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:45,519
the interviews with um uh

358
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:46,959
i'll have to remember her name in a

359
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:49,440
second was it ann west

360
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,199
no ann west lives in henderson nevada

361
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:55,440
and she was the one that was in contact

362
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:56,560
with the

363
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:01,199
security officer that had the uh

364
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:04,560
the videotape and black and white photos

365
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,000
from dulce

366
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:08,720
uh the person i'm thinking about that

367
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:09,760
was the

368
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:12,800
lady that came to his house and he did

369
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:14,160
the uh

370
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:17,519
abduction research on it and

371
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:20,320
she had been taken to dulce and i think

372
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:22,000
that was the first any of us that

373
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:26,000
had heard about dulce and leo sprinkle

374
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:28,880
was there they all got together and they

375
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:29,680
did it and i

376
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,120
actually have in my files

377
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:35,519
right next to me the original

378
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:37,120
handwritten

379
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:44,000
of uh the uh

380
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:47,600
abduction uh of uh

381
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:49,680
what's her name and uh all the stuff

382
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:52,320
that happened to her inside dulce

383
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:55,360
so i've heard that uh dodie and

384
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:57,600
maybe bill moore and stuff like that put

385
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:59,120
that into

386
00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:01,519
benowitz's head but if if they did then

387
00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:02,399
how come he

388
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:05,120
was the first one to come out with with

389
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:06,399
all of this

390
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:08,639
and actually get it on record with uh

391
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:09,839
leo sprinkle

392
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:12,399
that's right i i heard in the you're

393
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:14,560
right in the beginning he did

394
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:17,199
uh he did have some time up in the

395
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:18,639
northwest corner

396
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:23,120
of new mexico saw something and uh

397
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:25,680
from what i understand it's possible

398
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:27,040
that when he related it

399
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:29,600
to people like dodie dodie kind of took

400
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,600
it and went a little bit further with it

401
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:33,519
that type of thing i'm not really sure

402
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:34,720
of the facts

403
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,320
another thing i wanted to ask you about

404
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:38,560
is the krill memo

405
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:42,320
uh can you talk a little bit about that

406
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:44,959
yeah when i first got together uh first

407
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:46,959
really getting deep into this ufo stuff

408
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:48,480
there was a guy that worked at nellis

409
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:52,000
air force base uh he was a sergeant

410
00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:55,120
and uh he came to my door and

411
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:57,440
uh wanted to know if he could help and

412
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:59,360
he showed me some of the research he had

413
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,000
done

414
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:03,040
which included some of the stuff on on

415
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:04,319
bentwaters

416
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:07,760
and uh so uh to make a long story short

417
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:08,720
we came uh

418
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:11,760
we became uh uh good friends and did a

419
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:13,360
lot of research

420
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:16,880
and uh he wanted to write

421
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:20,880
an estimate of where he thought we were

422
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:23,199
as far as research on aliens at that

423
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:24,319
point

424
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:28,720
and so he wrote he wrote this

425
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:31,520
10 or 15 page maybe it was less than

426
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:32,559
that

427
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:35,600
of the situation and then he told me

428
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:38,640
you know i'd like to distribute this but

429
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:40,320
i can't use my name because i work with

430
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:41,919
the air force and i don't want to become

431
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:44,080
a problem

432
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:46,799
so he said can you think of a name uh we

433
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:47,919
could use

434
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:50,559
and i immediately thought of this alien

435
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:51,120
that the

436
00:17:58,830 --> 00:17:55,280
pentagon had been uh in touch with

437
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:58,840
at the pentagon whose name was krill

438
00:18:04,990 --> 00:18:01,679
c-r-l-l-l and uh

439
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:05,000
i said but we'll change the spelling to

440
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:06,880
k-r-i-l-l

441
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:09,440
and he said okay good and what about a

442
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:11,280
first name or initials

443
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:14,160
and i said i don't know it's up to you

444
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:15,600
and he picked oh